John Pino
Rutgers College Class of 1944
oral history interview



Excerpts from the Original Electronic Text at the Oral History Archives of World War II.
This excerpt is for educational purposes only. Permission to quote from this transcript must be obtained from the Rutgers Oral History Archives of World War II.

Sandra Stewart Holyoak and Lynn Marley conducted this interview with John A. Pino, in New Brunswick, New Jersey, on November 15, 1999, for the Rutgers Oral History Archives of World War II. G. Dorothy Sabatini, Shaun Illingworth, John A. Pino, and Sandra Stewart Holyoak made the transcription.

The son of Italian immigrants, John Pino served in the infantry in Europe.


LM: Do you remember where you were and how you found out about the attack on Pearl Harbor?

JP: Yes. I was in my room, upstairs in the attic in the Poultry Building, and we all heard this, all the guys up there, and we said, "Oh, this is it." I mean, it was ... a somber moment, but, we knew that, ... sooner or later, we’d be heading out.

LM: Did you see the campus atmosphere shift from the gay college milieu to a more militaristic demeanor, with the mandatory gym program and the accelerated curriculum?

JP: Yes, that came on, originally, quickly, ... because the college soon was used for training people, and so, we recognized that there was a change on the campus. Yes, it was ... sobering, but, you know, from there on, in a sense, a lot of the things you had to do, you did sort of, almost, in a blur, because some of the stuff you didn’t want to really have to think about, but, you worked hard. ... You knew that you had to go as far as you could get in college and, fortunately, ... I was able to complete my third year of classes. ... I still didn’t know where I was going to be or wanted to do, except I had this vision of teaching someday, and so, the military changed that.

. . . .

SSH: As a senior in high school, were you aware of what was going on in Europe at that point?

JP: I don’t think we were aware very much, ... not before 1940. ... I knew, at least, that there were a lot of things happening in Europe ... from 1933 on, that Germany was becoming strong, and they were gobbling up territories, but, we didn’t really relate it too much to what significance this had for us, but, we knew things were happening.

. . . .

SSH: Immediately after Pearl Harbor, was there any talk around campus of enlisting right away and trying to get into the action or were you all counseled to wait?

JP: No, I think ... many young men just went off. I mean, they volunteered or they were drafted. Some of them went and volunteered, because they could [then] get into the service that they chose, rather than wait for the draft, and that was partly my intention. Many of them went into the Navy ... or other branches of the service. Many of them would do almost anything other than the Army. I mean, nobody wanted to go in the Army. Of course, that was what we were in, ... this Army infantry thing, but, ... one knew that he would be going, sooner or later, and it was a question of, in what capacity would you go?

... I guess most of us thought, "Well, we’d rather go as an officer than as an enlisted man and, maybe, have ... some advantages as an officer," but, we knew that infantry officers were highly necessary and needed, so, we didn’t have any illusions about what we would be winding up doing.

... There was a, you know, tremendous mobilization. ... I mean, everybody was either called [up] in the draft [or enlisted] and ... I don’t think students necessarily tried to avoid it. They just knew that, at some point, they would be going in. In a way, it was a question of trying to finish up a semester or a year, so that at least you had that under your belt, and, fortunately for the group, my group, the Class of ’44, we were able to finish up our third year, which was ... a big help ... after we came back.

. . . .

[Pino discusses basic training.]

Part of this whole military thing here, in my own life, I think it was very important ... in learning the fact that ... you can be like the next guy. You can do what they can do. I think, for a man, that’s very important, that you’re equal to your peers, and, as I look back on my military history, I think that was one of the things ... that probably was as important as anything that happened to me, that you could survive the rigors the same as the next guy, you know, and it was rigorous. If you ever had any doubt about it, you were put to the test, and so, I think, in that way, it helped create some kind of ... self-esteem, you know. It was important. ... I mean, it was tough.

I mean, basically, any of the guys that will talk to you about their basic training, I mean, I think they could have run us over with a tank and we could have survived. We were tough. I mean, the trainers had no mercy. These were college kids that they got, you know, when we arrived. "We’re going to show these college kids," "Ah, college kids, huh?" because they were used to dealing with ... regular troops, and these were some rednecks from down South and that sort of thing, but, ... they were good for us.

I mean, they toughened us, and not only that, ... we became their pride and joy. First of all, we knew how to march like crazy. I mean, we could march better than anybody around, [laughter] but, not only that, they put us on forced marches, and we performed, and we were ready to go. They’d call you in the middle of the night, "Okay, everybody, form up and we’re going on a hike." Well, okay, you’d get your pack and you’d go. They treated us rough, ... no favorite treatment, because we were college kids. We were, in fact, I think, treated more roughly than anything else, but, it was good for us, because it gave us good training, good discipline. Anyway, we did that.

. . . .

LM: How did the Army train you to envision the enemy? What was your personal vision of the enemy?

JP: ... Oh, we had a pretty healthy respect for the ability of the Germans. ... I mean, they were winning wars. They had powerful troops, but, at that point, the tide was beginning to turn. I mean, the war in Africa had licked the Germans there, but, we knew that they had strength still. ... Then, of course, there was the relationship about the Japanese, and the Russians, and all of that. So, we knew that it was going to take a heck of a lot of effort on the part of a lot of people to bring the enemy down. I mean, they were shooting rockets. I mean, these were ... new weapons. So, we were dealing with a powerful, powerful enemy. We knew that. We hadn’t really learned too much about the atrocities at that point. ... Maybe it was known, but, ... I don’t believe I was really much aware of the atrocities that we learned about later on, but, we had no illusions about an easy war or anything like that. ... I mean, it was scary.

SSH: What were your duties as an executive officer?

JP: Well, your job was to overlook a lot of the administrative stuff, the management of the troops, the supply activities, do everything that a company commander couldn’t do, work with individual soldiers, soldiers that had problems, you know, relationships ... with other units. You were like the vice-president of a [company], you know, the executive officer, and I was young, you know. I was only twenty-one, and then, coming into this company, of course, there would be other soldiers, some of them almost old enough to be my father. I mean, there were older men and a mixture of all kinds of people, which you had to help form into some kind ... of a fighting unit.

. . . .

SSH: Were they from all over the United States?

JP: All over. ... We had people from the South, we had people ... from the cities. They were from all over.

LM: With such a melting pot, as the executive officer, how did you go about creating cohesion among your men?

JP: By orders. [laughter] In the military, you don’t have to worry about convincing anybody. I mean, it's a little bit different, and, of course, most of that discipline, I mean, it was discipline. You just did it "the Army way" and that was the job of the squad leader, the platoon leader, the platoon sergeant. I mean, they just ... carried out the discipline and informed the [troops]. ... I mean, it was just your job to evaluate whether these people are doing their job.

. . . .

SSH: How many men are we talking about?

JP: Well, there would be four platoons composed of four squads and a squad would be anywhere from thirteen to fifteen people, depending on what kind of squad. The rifle squads, I think, were thirteen people. The weapons squad was something different, but, each platoon had about sixty people. So, you’re talking about 240 people in a company, 240 men.

. . . .

SSH: Do you remember your first day of actual combat?

JP: ... The most that I remember about that, I’ll tell you, ... when they put us "in the line," so to speak, in a position, I remember going in, and, as we were going in, the unit that we were replacing was coming out, and I will never forget ... the look on the faces of these people that were coming out. I mean, they were exhausted. Their eyes were sunken. They're scared. They don’t say anything and I knew that we'd be coming [out] like that.

LM: Do you remember which division you were replacing?

JP: It was the Ninety-Ninth Infantry. ... It was frightening to see these guys, because they were coming out ... of an intensive period of fighting, and it was cold, snow on the ground, there were a lot of dead bodies around, still, in the woods, animals covered with snow. So, that was ... the first impression of getting in where the real war was.

… So, our units occupied positions in ... the Siegfried Line, as they called it there, with pill boxes, in towns that were being destroyed, and the Germans were still fighting pretty strongly, and this was your [introduction to combat]. I mean, you know, you go in with everybody else, nobody's ever been in combat before, and so, it’s a terrible experience. You know ... somebody’s going to shoot you, or somebody's going to get killed, and there were a lot of people killed, young . … Some of them even were replacements that came in the unit rather recently. They just didn’t survive. I mean, they talk about the expenditure of second lieutenants, I mean, privates were just ... about as expendable, or worse.

. . . .

SSH: How was the weather at this point?

JP: Well, ... it was winter, of course. It was cold. You know, you were cold. You know, again, this is where ... the kind of basic training you get [matters]. I mean, you have to be tough. I mean, you were out in this cold, sleeping outside, you know, like an animal in this cold, and, I mean, you survived, and it impresses you that you were alive, you know. Your feet are cold, your hands are cold, and then, when you managed to warm up a little bit, it kind of goes away, and a lot of things you don’t think about, because other things are more important.

You know, your men are important all the time. You’re running back and forth, you know, seeing how they are, getting them billeted, getting them up, and getting food to them. I mean, you know, you’re so damn busy all the time that you really don’t have time to think too much about your own comforts, so to speak. So, your days are long, your nights are short. ... Just to clean, occasionally, to shave and brush your teeth, maybe, [were comforts].

LM: Did you ever encounter men intentionally not changing their socks or doing other things to receive the "million dollar wound?" Did you have problems with that in your unit?

JP: Not really. I don’t think so. ... You know, it’s amazing how men ... respond to being a part of something, whatever it is, and there’s a certain pride in being a man, and, I mean, we were all scared. I mean, anybody that denies that they weren't scared is just, you know, [full of it]. I mean, we were scared, scared, because, you know, a whizzing bullet past your head ... is something to be afraid of. So, everybody was afraid.

... On the other hand, there was a certain pride in knowing that you were carrying your weight, that you were part of the group and being able to do it. I mean, ... there were breakdowns, occasionally, sure, but, most of the time, I think, most of the men were just absolutely incredible, incredible. I mean, they lived up to being what they had to be. Nobody wanted to be there, but, you know, they were basically honorable men. They were loyal and they were doing a job that had to be done. We all knew that.

. . . .

[Pino discusses life after the war.]

SSH: Was it hard to find a job with so many soldiers returning?

JP: Well, ... I think that was the only place I applied. I got a job there and they put me to work. … What we were doing, ... they were making influenza vaccine, and I was ... in the influenza vaccine department, and, actually, I was running a couple of machines that separated out the viruses from the culture medium

. . . .

SSH: Did you ever compare what you had just left and what you were now doing?

JP: No, well, it’s always there in a way, but, you know, you had to compartmentalize, and ... I think I did a lot of compartmentalizing. I put it in a box, I put it in the back of my head, and I shut the door, ... in a way, not that I wanted to forget the military experience, because, you know, I’m glad I had it and survived, but, it wasn’t ... a pleasant thing, I don’t think. You know, you can’t describe it as something that you deliberately wanted to do. It was tough, it was scary, and to see the destruction of the kind of humanity-to-humanity treatment ... that occurs in the world, I mean, all those things, I didn’t really want to dwell on it, frankly, and I had my own life to put in order, so, I didn’t.

. . . .

SSH: How do you feel that your war experience impacted the man that you are today?

JP: Well, as I say, I think ... it gave me a sense of, maybe, self-worth, because you have to remember the background I came out of, you know. To be born in this country or to be an immigrant in this country, you still ... have to prove yourself in a way. There’s an establishment in this country and, if you don’t believe it, you better believe it.

I spent ten years in Washington, and you're in or you're out, and background has a lot to do with that, a lot. ... It even amazed me that ... a person with my name and my background could be hired by an organization like the Rockefeller Foundation. I mean, I never said that to anybody. I shouldn’t be saying it here, perhaps, but, I felt my worth, in a sense, because I was able to do almost anything, just about anything, that anybody else did, and the military showed me that. I mean, it was tough and I survived that. I mean, I think it gave me a sense of worth, and then, the whole experience of living with men your equal or not your equal, … you could judge yourself against something, which the military forced you to do that, because ... you lived with hundreds of men, you know, and you were ... forced to make a judgment of yourself, in a sense, at least I did, and I think it at least gave me a sense of pride and worth.

. . . .

LM: I just wanted to go back for a moment. You had three sons that were coming of age during the Vietnam War and you said that none of them served. What were your feelings on the fact that they might have to serve?

JP: Well, I think if they had to, I think they should. I mean, I feel very strongly that, you know, to be born in this country and to have seen the places that I’ve seen, you can’t imagine the [suffering]. ... Really, you should be grateful, [exhibit] the gratefulness of being in a place that gives you the kinds of opportunities that we have. I’m not saying that just to be patriotic or anything like that. I mean, it’s real. I mean, you could be born in some places where, I mean, let me tell you, life is pretty tough. So, while I have questions, ... sometimes, about political motives, and all the other world issues that whirl around us, and what drags us into wars, … I somewhat feel like, was it, "If I have but one life to give for my country?" I think you better do it. ... So, I think everybody has an obligation to defend their country, right or wrong. That’s the way I feel.



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